Forums - SFA3 Help with Guy and Gen Show all 64 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- SFA3 Help with Guy and Gen (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3770) Posted by Violence on 10:21:2000 12:20 PM: Can anybody give me any good tips and combos for Gen and Guy effectively? I would greatly appericate it. Posted by Gosu on 10:21:2000 09:25 PM: Well, since I quit playing A3 a couple months ago everything is a bit rusty, but I will try and give some Gen tips. One other disclaimer, I tend to suck describing things, so forgive me. What works for me with playing Gen is two things. First off, I try to confuse the player while in KKK style. Use a lot of jumping forwards(the funky stomp looking thing), as that move crosses up pretty good(hell the jumping forward in PPP style does too). A good annoyance tactic against people that suck is jumping forward, low short(and if you get the counter hit launch), the air throw super. Basically, with Gen's higher jump in KKK you want to try and control the air and force them to the corner. Jumping roundhousex2 in the air also works if you are going to beat them to a leaping attack. Another thing to try is using Gen's air super(qcbx2 in the air+kick)..this thing is sometimes useful at the confusion game. I usually try to get it if they throw a random air attack out and I am going up to meet them. If you waste a level 3(which I really don't advise to do often), you can really fuck someone up if they aren't used to seeing it..just be sure to not do the same attacks in the sequence(duh) http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Now I will get to PPP style. I use PPP style a lot if I cannot get air superiority or if I am fighting against the big guys. Standing forward kick is a great poke, has good priority and stuff. Gen's sweep is also pretty good, as it has a good range. I usually use that to try and get fb'ers. Do not do random Zan'ei(the rushing super)..that will get you killed..always combo that pig if you can..and always combo with level 2, because if you get it and they dont flip out correctly, you can catch them with a level 1 airgrab in KKK style(switch styles whilst gen is rushing through him). I know some people say that this style or that style is the best, but I believe in using both. So another words, learn all the normals and then try and combine them. And finally, I know a lot of this information was vague or basic, but like I said above, I kind of suck at explainations..so feel free to post comments and such(just don't start some lame ass flame war because I tried to help someone out). Talking fast couldn't tell me something, I would shed my skin for you. Talking fast on the edge of nothing, I would break my back for you. Don't know why, Don't know why things vaporise and rise to the sky. [This message has been edited by Gosu (edited 10-21-2000).] Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:23:2000 12:35 AM: ok all that and if your in his mantis pull out his fast hand with mp all the time to stop all oncommers i like to jump in mp mp fast hand into pearless cut *qcf hp* guy slide a lot with the fake and the low and grab man grab your heart out with his flip grab email me fo mop http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Shiro on 10:23:2000 02:15 AM: well,Guy is one of my favorite characters so I'll try to help you out. hmmm..... where to start? well, lets start with what guy best known for his speed! guy is FAST. one of the fastest in the game. use this to keep the pressure on your opponent. his running moves let him move cross the screen in no time flat. the lk run is just that, a run. use it to get closer to your opponent. you can also use it to run under them if they jump but dont do this too often. the mk run is a slide. the slide is a good move to use as a suprise. It has a big lag if blocked so dont do it too often. use it on newbies and scrubs, average and advanced players will kill you if you use this move too much. the hk run is a two-hit overhead kick. I tend to use this on people who turtle. mix it up with an occasional slide to keep them guessing. it has a slight start up lag so you might want to do it a little early. his elbow goes through projectiles and the lp version combos. it also combos into his punch super in the corner. the bushin drop (qcf+p) goes over projectiles and the lp version can stop some jump ins if done early. thats about all I can think of for now. I'll add more later If I can remember. oh yeah! chain combos. I almost forgot. Guy is one of the few characters that have chain combos. whil he only has two they are very usefull. mp,fp. a easy two hitter thats great in combos and juggles. lp,mp,hp,hk. his old final fight chain. great in combos and you cna juggle after it. and now some combos. 1. mp,fp, lp elbow. a simple combo if done in the corner you can add his punch super after it. Ill post more later. [This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 10-22-2000).] Posted by Shiro on 10:23:2000 03:39 AM: had to leave in a hurry before so I didnt get to everything. heres some more. 1. final fight chain, punch super. easy and damaging. 2. kick throw, punch super. again easy and powerfull. 3. in corner. final fight chain, mp, hp chain, bushin drop. very powerfull and no to hard to do. 4.this one's fairly hard. mid screen. mp,fp chain, kick super, final fight chain, mp, fp, chain, bushin drop. one of his most powerfull combos. not to many uses though as its hard to set up. the match is prety much over if you land it though. thats all for now. [This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 10-22-2000).] [This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 10-22-2000).] Posted by davekof on 10:23:2000 06:42 AM: Gen and Guy are characters that I usually take for fun, or to challenge myself theses days. However, I do have some cool strategies for both of them. Gen: First you must learn the combo into super from punch mode(Dwp, Dwk, Dmk, qcfx2+P). Then eventually move onto the crouch cancelled combo(Dwp, Dwk, Dmp, Dfp, super). The key to playing Gen is in the kick style. This is where all the great moves are. He has some slow and quirky moves, but he also has some fast and deadly moves: standing and ducking MK, Ducking MP, (my personal fav') ducking WK, and standing FK. Also he has a great crossup(Jmk), a great air to air move(Jfk, Jwp, Jwk, Jmk),and awesome charge moves(B,F+P. D,U+K). Okay so Gen has all these great priorities but what good are they if I can't find an opening to my opponent you ask? The first Gen faq that I read said that Gen is a wily assasin, play him like one(That faq is on Shoryuken). This is exactly what you should keep in mind. You should be rolling under fireballs and headstomping any non-dragon punch anti-air moves. Also because Gen's moves are so quirky, you can minipulate the opponent into making a mistake and following up with your super combo. This is the essence of Gen. So you're playing Ryu, you get close to him and corner him. Ryu thinks that he's safe but he isn't. Theoreticaly, Ryu should be to confused to dragon punch your moves since they alternate from fast to slow and up and down. So you just sit there, in perfect range for anti-air(Dfk) and "theoretically" whatever Ryu does, you should be able to counter. Plus if he just sits there, you can get some block damage off of him with your rolling attack(B,F+p). So to conclude the "Kick style section", use this as your main offense and only use it if you have levels(1 2 or 3). Also remember that Gen has great corner juggles which can all be ended with his "kick style" catch super. Also always be ready to follow your "kick style" Dwk into a level3 catch super. So Gen has a whole arsenal of attacks, and by mixing them up you can always keep your opponent guessing. Punch style: This is basic fighting skills. Jumping over fireballs and poking. This is most peoples style of choice. All the moves have range and speed; also priority. But so what, all they have to do is block. Eventually they'll anticipate your sweep and jump at you and rush the sh*t out of you. By staying in this style you're not forcing the opponent to think very hard and eventually they'll hurt you. The only things that I have used while in this style is delayed combo chains and wk dragon kicks. His dargon kick is a fantastic move(F, D, F+k). The way to use the dragon kick is, of course, as anti air but also while just sitting on the ground. The weak kickDK(dragon kick)has excellent recovery, awsome priority and is great even if you miss it. I just tend to throw them out randomly so that my opponent tries to attack but comes to close and then gets hit with a cross-up mk into a combo. So the use of this varies. If you miss it, and find yourself trapped in the air floating, try to anticipate their attack and kick them out of it. So basically this style is all about poking and defence, and building levels with the dragon kick. Last but not least, if you find yourself trapped, just remember that the DK is anti-ground as well as anti-air. I think of two things when Gen comes to my mind: -He can't be played passivly -He's a wily assasin... play him like one. Guy: Guy has the greatest arsenal of moves that I've seen, besides Akuma. The Guy that plays at my Arcade likes to sweep a lot and then anticipate your attack and counter it with his kick super. Pretty dull and boring for the experienced player. The only good Guy strategy that I've ever heard of is Daigo's "random attacking Guy". But you gotta know his combo aswell. It's very easy to sucker an opponent into the corner with Guy, so you must also know his combo after combo in the corner(Swk, Swp, Smp, Sfp, Sfk, wait for them to fall to about your hip level, Swp, Smp, Sfp, Sfk or Swp, Smp, Sfp, punch super). While using Guy try to keep moving and not just sitting there. Guy can also play an ok keepaway game aswell. That's all that I know about him... combo, Combo, COMBO The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by Nos99 on 10:23:2000 11:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by davekof: Then eventually move onto the crouch cancelled combo(Dwp, Dwk, Dmp, Dfp, super When could you crouch cancel one of his normals?? I didn't think Gen could do that.. Wait, are you talking about, uh.. kara-combo or proximity cancelling (whatever) where you cancel the roundhouse from his chain early, into super? Posted by davekof on 10:24:2000 06:19 AM: Yes I'm talkin' about kara-cancelling or whatever... there's a small bit of time where you cancel his super from his crouching feirce punch. Right now I'm not thinking about that stuff though, I'm working out my V-Gen. That's damage! and he gets his VC at 50% so dam fast! hey, how do I quote somebody on the forums like you quoted me? The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by Nos99 on 10:24:2000 11:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by davekof: Yes I'm talkin' about kara-cancelling or whatever... there's a small bit of time where you cancel his super from his crouching feirce punch. Can you cancel off of the fierce? I'm pretty sure you chain fierce into the roundhouse and cancel the roundhouse right away into the super. quote: Right now I'm not thinking about that stuff though, I'm working out my V-Gen. That's damage! and he gets his VC at 50% so dam fast! Yeah, his KKK VC is pretty cool but hard to learn. I pick V sometimes just to have that "escape" option. I dunno, don't really play Gen too much.. His drive-by super in X is awesome anti-air though. V-Gen got that short into infinite thing if you want to annoy people. quote: hey, how do I quote somebody on the forums like you quoted me? There's a little bar on the bottom right corner of this message.. click on quote. Or you use the UBB code and type [QU0TE]"texthere"[/QU0TE] [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-23-2000).] Posted by TS on 10:25:2000 01:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by davekof: Right now I'm not thinking about that stuff though, I'm working out my V-Gen. That's damage! and he gets his VC at 50% so dam fast! Yeah, V-ISM Gen is cool. I actually learned that VC just to get through World Tour mode. Speaking of which, Gen is basically a god if you turn on Original Combo and Guage Plus for world your options. quote: Yeah, his KKK VC is pretty cool but hard to learn. I pick V sometimes just to have that "escape" option. I dunno, don't really play Gen too much.. His drive-by super in X is awesome anti-air though. V-Gen got that short into infinite thing if you want to annoy people. What infinite? Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:25:2000 07:00 AM: fuck v ok anyone with any skillz will knock your ass out of your shadow trails in a sec. while we are on the subject what speed do you use the wp wk combination for short time but close shadow trails mid or spred? too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by HotKola on 10:25:2000 09:26 AM: Guy is poke poke and poke some more. S. Forward is a good poke. D. Strong for anti-air S. Strong-fierceXXshort run, throw D. Forward should be your main sweep. Jump forward for crossups Move around a lot and poke some more. Posted by Nos99 on 10:25:2000 10:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by TS: Yeah, V-ISM Gen is cool. I actually learned that VC just to get through World Tour mode. Speaking of which, Gen is basically a god if you turn on Original Combo and Guage Plus for world your options. Gen with guage plus is good enough as it is. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif V is cool tho.. i use him to mess around with more than anything. like trying his handspank VCs in the corner. The KKK VC is high damage too.. one tip i have for anyone who has problems is that sometimes I use the s.strong instead of the d.fierce. The s.strong brings your forward. But, it can be even hard to time using the strong so I don't know if it's easier at all. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif quote: quote: What infinite? j. forward in KKK style. repeat. air-to-air counterhit with j.short, crouch cancel into jump towards, activate VC, j.forward, crouch cancel into jump up forward, crouch cancel into jump up forward, etc. when you get to the corner do repeated jump up forwards.. I suppose any air-to-air counterhit attack will work, but I like the j.short. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Another setup is VC2, short DP, 3-4 hits with KKK, jump towards for the infinite.. I've had people say they couldn't flip, but I haven't really tested it at all. Just messing around with V-Gen. Your shadows should hit when you're jumping towards.. Should work excellent against scrubs anyhow. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif he has one of the easiest infinites in the game anyhow.. [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-24-2000).] Posted by Nos99 on 10:25:2000 10:37 AM: speed has nothing to do with activation. [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-24-2000).] Posted by TS on 10:25:2000 10:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: fuck v ok anyone with any skillz will knock your ass out of your shadow trails in a sec. Yeah. I suppose that's why the best players on the planet use V-ISM. Because it sucks. ... I'm not even gonna argue this with you, because you don't know what you're talking about here. Go to GameFAQs, and read the V-ISM sections in James Chen's combo systems guide. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:26:2000 06:26 AM: so you would use a syle because others use it how sad. too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by davekof on 10:26:2000 07:15 AM: Gen owns the whole ground if he's on V-ism. You just plain can't get at him if he's on the V. It's the same with Akuma. Akuma charges his V-ism so fast that if you come to close he'll just turn on the v-ism. Oh yeah... my V-Charlie OWNZ anybody who thinks V-ism sucks. I live in Canada, so as a you can imagine, I came up with this V-shit myself. What's the int-era-net A? Oh yeah... I just found something out today while owning them poor scrubs at the arcade. V-Vega has a chaboti cancel(Y'know that thing that they published on Shoryuken about canceling normal moves into V-ism). It's: Charge D, U+rk, then cancel the U+rk into sp+fk v-ism. After performing this, Vega will be in V-ism while about to fly off the walls and drop yo scrub asses! After this you can iniciate a cool V combo: (opponent in mid screen)Chaboti flying izuna attack(jump off wall and grab), flip kick(DB, F+rk),sp rolling crystal ball, flip kicks in the croner until dead. I like Gen and all, but I like Charlie, Vega, and Ryu a little better. Gen was my first Alpha2 character and also first alpha3 character. Now that vegas back in it though, I gotta go him. The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:26:2000 07:30 AM: cool but not as fun as linking supers in MY opinion too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by davekof on 10:26:2000 07:55 AM: My V-Gen can dominate the ground... as would any V-Gen put into the right hands. I mainly used him to be original and I'm now totaly bored of him. I only find that I will be beat by against a good Ryu and a good Charlie, this is due to their corner rush capabilities and my small guard meter. V-Gen is as good as gen will ever get and that still isn't that great. I still can't believe the crap lag that he has on his KKK fp rolling move. Also if he fucks up his V-ism, he's dead. He seemed great to me at first but, when my friend JoYu rteurned, to play me from China;heh heh,*coughs*, I found myself being way more defensive than I'd liked. Plus I got owned. I thought about this way: who would I rather have V-Gen(slower Vega with more moves and less lag, but a little less priority, way slower), or V-Vega(faster anti-air, more medium range priority, better corner VC, way faster). I took Vega. oh yeah... My V-Charlie owns anybodys ass, who thinks that V-Ism sucks! The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by Xenogear on 10:26:2000 08:17 AM: i hate to break it to u homos, but V or not, no matter who u are, u cant take shadowcharlie in SFA3 when hes Fei Long in A. or me wit Shin in A but shins kinda cheap im my opinion. http://www.crosswinds.net/~zenogears/images/id03.jpg ------------- Names are of no importance to me, but if you must know,....ID. Posted by davekof on 10:26:2000 08:40 AM: Just remember that you can't pick Fei-long in real tournaments... if I had it my way and I could pick fei'... Well I'd be using Deejay, fei' and T-hawk all night long...booya!!! Maybe at Super turbo... but I don't play the oldman's game(no offense). On the home version of Alpha3, Fei-long, Deejay, T-Hawk, and Ryu are the best no question... okay maybe Ryu is questionable. Those 3 guys from SSF2 have always been the best no matter where they go... I call this the super capcom fuck up. The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by davekof on 10:26:2000 09:02 AM: I also think that linking supers is way cooler than V-Ism combos. The most difficult thing that I've ever had to do(in terms of time it took me to learn and ability to throw it out at real people), was with Ken and Ryu on X-Ism: Wit' Ken or Ryu: Cross-up fk, Sfp, super. It was hard to get the super in there for me. The reason I use X as my example was because of the huge damage that that combo does on X! I agree wit' shadow Charlie that A-Ryu is more balanced than V-Ryu. However, V-Ism can make or brake a character... like Cody, and it make a character even better, like Charlie. This also depends on the situation. I would rather have A-Charlie against Zangief than V-Charlie. Wit' the anti-air super I have a better chance of beeting the russian. Against every other character that I can beat by mixing up my Cfp, and Csp anti-airs, I'd rather have V-Ism there for the wicked ground game. I also believe that mixing up Charlie's anti-airs is where the true potential lies since he's such a good corner trapper and because his sonic boom has such little recovery time; plus his Csp has great priority. If you want anymore detail on my excellent INDEPENDENT charlie theories, just say so on this topic and I'll get back to you tommorrow. The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by TS on 10:26:2000 11:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by davekof: On the home version of Alpha3, Fei-long, Deejay, T-Hawk, and Ryu are the best no question... okay maybe Ryu is questionable. How do you figure V-Ryu doesn't just totally nail the SSF2 guys? He's one of the best characters in the game, if not THE best, according to the best players in A3... Anyway, what's up with all the homos who have something against V-ISM? Are you such a bad player, that you are too scared to try and learn it, because then you'll both be wrong AND a bad player? Listen, shadowcharlie. I don't play V-ISM because other people play it. I play it because it's fun, it's different, and it's often the best for the character. That's also why others play it. If you're so closed minded that you can't except that something is better than something else you like, then I feel sorry for you. Next you're gonna tell me Charlie is the best character in A3, right? Even though he's an B+ character, according to the character rankings which have been refined over two years because of top-level players and people who've spent ten times as much time playing the game as you have? Get over yourself. V-ISM is the best mode for at least half of the cast. Though ironically not Gen or Guy, because that's who this thread is about... If you're not going to find out why, then you shouldn't even be talking about it. Because that means you've made an effort to keep yourself ignorant about a very important part of the game. I'm not saying that A/X characters are trash...a lot of them are pretty damn good. But a lot of V characters are better. Posted by SniperG on 10:26:2000 01:15 PM: yep [This message has been edited by SniperG (edited 03-10-2001).] Posted by TS on 10:26:2000 02:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by SniperG: V-ism ryu just sucks. I mean he get kill by Vism Dhalsim and Vism Zangief. And man, all Juni have to do is just Psycho sheild him away and his V-ism CC is useless. I'm going to go out on a limb here...you don't play V-Ryu, do you? First of all, For Juni to do the push, she has to block something. And if Ryu was gonna do a block damage VC, it'd just be repeated fireballs in the corner. Juni can't push block those. Flaw #2: Like I said, Juni has to block to do the push off. So what it comes down to, is Ryu being a better character than Juni. I'm not saying she's bad...I'm saying Ryu is better. Juni can't do anything. She jumps, or does her overhead thingamajig, and she catches a DP, or anti-air VC. She ends up in the corner, and she loses the round pretty much automatically. She tries a teleport at the wrong time (which is most of the time), she gets thrown/comboed/juggled, whatever. She turtles, she loses, because she can't do anything from long range (ie projectile). She pokes, she catches a Dragon Punch. Though to be fair to her, she has some good pokes. Plus there's the basic damage handicap she has going on, and the fact that she has to charge for most of her stuff. [This message has been edited by TS (edited 10-26-2000).] Posted by Septmed on 10:26:2000 02:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by SniperG: V-ism ryu just sucks. I mean he get kill by Vism Dhalsim and Vism Zangief. And man, all Juni have to do is just Psycho sheild him away and his V-ism CC is useless. Spoken like a true master. http://www.geocities.com/zeroalphaex/sfalpha3/artwork4/juli.gif Target Destroyed Posted by idol on 10:26:2000 02:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS: I'm going to go out on a limb here...you don't play V-Ryu, do you? First of all, For Juni to do the push, she has to block something. And if Ryu was gonna do a block damage VC, it'd just be repeated fireballs in the corner. Juni can't push block those. Flaw #2: Like I said, Juni has to block to do the push off. So what it comes down to, is Ryu being a better character than Juni. I'm not saying she's bad...I'm saying Ryu is better. Juni can't do anything. She jumps, or does her overhead thingamajig, and she catches a DP, or anti-air VC. She ends up in the corner, and she loses the round pretty much automatically. She tries a teleport at the wrong time (which is most of the time), she gets thrown/comboed/juggled, whatever. She turtles, she loses, because she can't do anything from long range (ie projectile). She pokes, she catches a Dragon Punch. Though to be fair to her, she has some good pokes. Plus there's the basic damage handicap she has going on, and the fact that she has to charge for most of her stuff. [This message has been edited by TS (edited 10-26-2000).] Thank for saying that TS, now i like Juni even more. I like when people say bad things about characters so I can play them more. I know my important job now, trying to master the hardest characters in the game. I hope there will be more Juni players like me. [This message has been edited by idol (edited 10-26-2000).] Posted by TS on 10:26:2000 02:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by SniperG: V-ism ryu just sucks. I mean he get kill by Vism Dhalsim and Vism Zangief. And man, all Juni have to do is just Psycho sheild him away and his V-ism CC is useless. Can't really argue with the Dhalsim/Zangief part, because they're in the same "league" with V-Ryu. I've always had problems against Zangeif, so I couldn't tell you if that was a me thing or a Ryu thing. Only thing I could tell ya would be that "V-ISM Dhalsim just get's Killed by V-ISM Akuma," or "V-ISM Zangeif just gets killed by V-ISM Dhalsim" or "V-ISM Akuma just gets killed by V-ISM Sakura" are equally valid to the one you made about V-Ryu. At least they're all at or near the same level...not many Z-ISM characters on that level. Posted by TS on 10:26:2000 03:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by idol: Thank for saying that TS, now i like Juni even more. I like when people say bad things about characters so I can play them more. I know my important job now, trying to master the hardest characters in the game. I hope there will be more Juni players like me. Well I wouldn't say Juni is "bad"... Just not the top-tier. Think of it this way. ?-Dhalsim, V-Akuma, V-Ryu, V/A-Zangeif, V-Sakura in SFA3 are equal to Cable, Spiral, Dhalsim, Sentinel, Strider etc in MvC2. There are plenty of other good characters in the game, but these are the ones you're going to be seeing/hearing about winning the most big tourneys for a while. Posted by Nos99 on 10:26:2000 09:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by SniperG: V-ism ryu just sucks. I mean he get kill by Vism Dhalsim and Vism Zangief. And man, all Juni have to do is just Psycho sheild him away and his V-ism CC is useless. Man, V-Ryu doesn't suck at all. He's crazy. If you get cornered and he can get his VC going you're pretty much dead. easiest infinite setup in the game, which is hard to block because of the overhead stuff makes him deadly. He's awesome midscreen as well.. i mean, shit. It's Ryu. He has to be good. He doesn't get killed by V-Gief or V-Sim either. He might have a hard time (especially with Sim imo) but they're about the same level in terms of character quality imo. I find in those matchups, it comes down to which player is better.. not really the character. Who can stop the other guy's VC. About Juni.. I love using Juni. (I'm an underdog guy myself). But I don't think she's even near Ryu's level. She's got all the VC combos (anti-air, midscreen, confusion, spd, corner, etc) and does the most damage out of the 3 cammy clones.. but That still doesn't make up the difference. Ryu is just better. Juni has to outpoke Ryu to win, land her VCs, and make sure he doesn't land his. Not to mention Ryu has a FB. I'm not saying that she can't win, it's just that she is disadvantaged. It's really just a matter of her really outplaying her opponent. To TS: why can't she pushblock the FB VC? I've done it lots of times. The pushblock is a big bonus for Juni. Posted by Nos99 on 10:26:2000 09:10 PM: quote: Originally posted by davekof: Just remember that you can't pick Fei-long in real tournaments... if I had it my way and I could pick fei'... Well I'd be using Deejay, fei' and T-hawk all night long...booya!!! Maybe at Super turbo... but I don't play the oldman's game(no offense). On the home version of Alpha3, Fei-long, Deejay, T-Hawk, and Ryu are the best no question... okay maybe Ryu is questionable. Those 3 guys from SSF2 have always been the best no matter where they go... I call this the super capcom fuck up. Eh.. I use those characters myself, but the best? I don't think so. IMO Fei long is really good. A lot of preople don't agree with that, but i'll stick by it until someone proves me wrong. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif V-Fei is the best though (of course) although the other -isms aren't bad DJ has cool shit, although upclose he can be pretty lame sometimes. Again, V-DJ is the best but like Fei, his other -isms aren't bad. One thing I like about DJ is that he's got almost NO projectile delay.. WTF is up with that? Give that back to guile! V-Hawk is the only Hawk worth using AT ALL. All he does is long pokes, and try to land his VCs. If you can get around his VCs he's dead. I use these characters a lot, but I really don't think they're the best. What about Sakura, ryu, akuma, Dhalsim, Gief, etc? Posted by Nos99 on 10:26:2000 09:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by Xenogear: i hate to break it to u homos, but V or not, no matter who u are, u cant take shadowcharlie in SFA3 when hes Fei Long in A. or me wit Shin in A but shins kinda cheap im my opinion.[/i][/B] Woah, someone else who uses Fei in A3. I consider myself pretty good with Fei, and would love to hear someone else opinions and strats.. So if you're reading this Shadowcharlie let's hear it. I'd like to know why you're "unbeatable". http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif BTW: picking shin is a good way of being an asshole. I don't mean to offend you (even though you did call every here a homo), but do you suck that bad that you have to pick Shin Akuma? I mean, my little sister can be damn near unbeatable if she picks Shin. well, not really but you should get my point. Posted by TS on 10:26:2000 10:31 PM: Well, I was in training mode, and I just activated a VC with Ryu, and tossed fireballs at Juni. Since nobody else was around, I just paused the game, and tried to push block the fireballs with Juni. Didn't seem to work. Anyway, the thing I have against push blocking in A3, is that it sucks. Well, not exactly... I mean take V-Dan. What if your opponent decides not to do any VCs? Anytime you push block him/her, you STILL take block damage, and you STILL take GC damage. And now your opponent is too far out of range to counter attack. And since Dan can do zero in a long range match, the whole thing just seems like a bad idea to me. quote: Originally posted by Nos99: DJ has cool shit, although upclose he can be pretty lame sometimes. Again, V-DJ is the best but like Fei, his other -isms aren't bad. One thing I like about DJ is that he's got almost NO projectile delay.. WTF is up with that? Give that back to guile! I think of all of the SSF2 guys in A3, that V-ISM Dee Jay would have to be the best. He's pretty murderous if you get your opponent cornered, And I don't know what you mean about him being bad up close...he has basically an Anywhere-to-mid screen VC, that does about 65%. Not sure about the damage on the corner one I found, but I'm sure it isn't less than 50. They're not TOO terribly easy to land, but they're feasible- The corner one especially, because it can be combo'd. Dee Jay having no recovery time on his projectile is just...sweet. Posted by Mouko on 10:27:2000 05:15 AM: Ok I'm really bored and I want to jump in this thread.. To ShadowCharlie quote: fuck v ok anyone with any skillz will knock your ass out of your shadow trails in a sec. while we are on the subject what speed do you use the wp wk combination for short time but close shadow trails mid or spred buy a B4 video, watch it..learn something then shut up. to davekof quote: Gen owns the whole ground if he's on V-ism.You just plain can't get at him if he's on the V. Aism is way better. Basically, his VC isn't really that good. In aism, he is given rush super, which doubles as a safe anti air AND is comboable. His pokes are very good, if you can take advantage of both of his styles. To Sniper quote: V-ism ryu just sucks. I mean he get kill by Vism Dhalsim and Vism Zangief. And man, all Juni have to do is just Psycho sheild him away and his V-ism CC is useless. naming other top tiers doesn't really count. Top tiers are suppose to have an even chance with each other (in this case, V ryu stands a chance against both V sim and V Gief), but you mentioning Juni is a total joke, she is ranked probably the last character in the entire game, not counting the home version, in which Guile is very useless, next to all the other new characters they put in the home versions. To the original poster I can't tell you much about gen, Ask Choi or someone, but Guy is probably my favorite characters to play as in Alpha 3. You have to learn that Guy SHOULDN'T jump too much, he doesn't need to. I'll start from the beginning. C.strong is a good poke ( like every other strong ) also, which may sound strange, it is a good ANTI AIR. S.strong is also a good poke. S.jab/c.jabs are standard for poking games and good/decent anti air. c.fierce is a good far anti air. s.foward is a good poke as well. J. straight up foward is a good air->air move. His best jump ins are probably j.rh and j.down+ strong (elbow drop), jump straight up rh is a good combo starter as they are getting up (his double flip kick), and can also serve as a decent air to air move. his basic Bushin Combo is s.jab - s.strong - s.fierce - s.rh basic combos 1. c.strong - fierce turn punch (qcb+ fierce) 2. c.strong - short HK kick (qcb + short) In the bushin combo, you can add a certain amounth of jabs in the beginning (2-3) depending on the size of the characters. The killer thing about Guy is that he can juggle after the Bushin combo For MASSIAVE Damage. Let me give you an example. This combo can be done anywhere on the screen. S.jab - s.strong - s.fierce - s.rh (they are in the air) - s.strong - s.fierce - fierce bushin flip grab (qcf + fierce then fierce as you are near them to throw) This combo is unflippable and the flip grab combos as well. Here are other combos you can do after a normal Bushin Chain most of these juggles will do 50% with no super! 1. Bushin Chain again 2. s.strong - s.fierce - fierce bushin flip grab (qcf + fierce; fierce again) 3. s.strong - s.fierce - foward run slide (qcf + foward X2; this is so you can get near them and set up for more combos) 4. corner only Air super (qcfX2 + P) Combo into supers 1. s.strong - s.fierce XX Lvl 3 bushin rush super (qcfx2 + K; after this you can juggle the person again like you can after a bushin chain, any of the above listed excluding #4) 2. c.strong - lvl 3 bushin rush super 3. KK throw into lvl 3 air super (qcfX2+ P) special combos These combos are special because they use something called Proximity canceling. There is an article here on shoryuken.com you can read about it. It explains everything in there so check the Alpha 3 section, but here are some combos. -note- where it says PX it means Proximity cancel 1. s.jab - s.strong - s.fierce - s.rhPX Lvl 3 bushin rush super - s.jab - s.strong - s.fierce - s.rhPXrh HK kick. 2.Corner only j.fierce(counter hit)- s.jab x 2 - bushin chain combo - s. strong - s. fierce - short run (qcf+short) - opponent dizzy - your back facing the corner - jump straight up roundhouse (2 hits) - bushin combo - PX - lvl 3 bushin rush super (qcfX2+ rh) - small step back - s.jab - bushin chain x2PX - rh HK kick (qcb+ rh) - opponent dizzy again - j.fierce - s.jab x2 - bushin chain x2PX- lvl 1 air super (qcfX2+ P) 100% Combo; I have this on video which I did the combo for Shoryuken.com early on, but I have never got the chance to capture it to be put on srk.com, maybe in the future when I have the time. It's a very hard combo and I give props to anyone that can do it if you have anymore questions on Guy and stuff, feel free to email me. Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ [This message has been edited by Mouko (edited 10-26-2000).] Posted by Xenogear on 10:27:2000 05:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by Nos99: Woah, someone else who uses Fei in A3. I consider myself pretty good with Fei, and would love to hear someone else opinions and strats.. So if you're reading this Shadowcharlie let's hear it. I'd like to know why you're "unbeatable". http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif BTW: picking shin is a good way of being an asshole. I don't mean to offend you (even though you did call every here a homo), but do you suck that bad that you have to pick Shin Akuma? I mean, my little sister can be damn near unbeatable if she picks Shin. well, not really but you should get my point. i know shin is cheap. that what i said. and hes not my best, well he is, but hes everyones best. what i was tryin to say is that im not as good wit fei as shadowcharlie is, but hes my best sides shin. http://www.crosswinds.net/~zenogears/images/id03.jpg ------------- Names are of no importance to me, but if you must know,....ID. Posted by Mouko on 10:27:2000 07:20 AM: To Xenogear quote: I know shin is cheap. that what i said. and hes not my best, well he is, but hes everyones best. what i was tryin to say is that im not as good wit fei as shadowcharlie is, but hes my best sides shin. There are a few points here that show that you guys aren't as good as you think. I wanted to tell you a few things. In alpha 3, Shin-akuma is not cheap at all, from what you should know, regular akuma is even BETTER than him. Akuma's best mode is V-ism. Shin-akuma has special properties where his moves cancel fast, therefore, in Vism, shin akuma cannot do any of regular Akuma's vism combos, which make him one of the best in the games. You are forced to play Aism/Xism Shin-Akuma, where, if you played Vs. Vism Akuma he can do Vism combos for FREE. (this is because V akuma has "unblockable" visms. Aism/Xism characters and most Vism characters can't do anything against it, although Vism has the advantage of being able to "blowthrough" it.) 2. You are playing characters such as Fei Long and Shin akuma, which leads me to believe (well I know) you are playing at home. You cannot judge a persons skill at home playing your friends, you maybe good with Fei long or Shin Akuma, but that is only AMONG YOUR FRIENDS. Unless you have won any real tournaments lately (real meaning there are people that actually know stuff in the tourney, ex: Sunnyvale Golfland tournies with the likes of John Choi, The cannon brothers, David Sirlin, Cole..etc) then you are really no better than any of your other friends, because you are only as good as the people you play. Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by SniperG on 10:27:2000 07:54 AM: yep [This message has been edited by SniperG (edited 03-10-2001).] Posted by SniperG on 10:27:2000 08:14 AM: Yep [This message has been edited by SniperG (edited 03-10-2001).] Posted by davekof on 10:27:2000 09:26 AM: I will also agree that there is no best player in SFA3(arcade version!!!! fuckin' shin akuma!). Think about Ryu for a minute, he can kill anybody(duh, he has a fireball and dragon punch). This also means that he can lose to anyone. Essentually, all you need to have is better control of the game than Ryu, and you've won. Jump or go through his fireballs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't that been the best anti-Ryu strat' ever(sounds to good to be true but that's about all there is... now where's that Alex Valle? http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif )? As for Gen on Aism as opposed to Vism, eventually his levels will run out. His level one rush super has no priority. Essentually Gen needs to have that level2 to always be there. If your Gen is hiding behind his level2 or 3 rush super, than he's as good as dead. If Gen is played perfectly on Aism than He'll use his 3 levels up in the first round, charge them back up in the second, and waste them again in the third. This is exactly how you should hope to beat Blanka with Gen. He does a rolling ball, you block and counter with the level 2 rush super. After this, get in his face and build up another level 2. He does the ball, you counter. Otherwise you're just waiting for Blanka to jump, because you have more priority on the ground than him(what I usually do is wiff ducking medium kicks, in preperation for an anti-air dragon kick). But what if he misses his rush super in either rounds? According to the Aism strategy, He's dead. The reason I like V-ism so much is because it lets me be more offensive, and I'll gain it back much faster than A-Ism. Gen has shitty defense(contrary to popular belief), his best defense is in the PPP mode dragon kick which, sadly, is in the PPP mode! He has nothing in the PPP mode that gives any psycological advantage(by the way, if you just stay in the PPP style all the time you become to easy to anticipate). As I've mentioned before, gen's greatest offensive strength lies in the KKK style. So basically Gen is a fast flurry of jabs and crossups and wall hopping and handslapping and rolling that never quits! The way to beat this offensive, that never seems to quit, is too first remember that the Gen user's hands are always moving. Having to constantly swith styles after any kick style string. With most people(including myself), they get themselves into this robotic pattern. All you have to do is hit him between styles so to speak, while his hands are in that robotic faze of switching style(we're all human, you can't say that this never happens to you. If it doesn't than you need better competition). So from this you can see why having that extra option of V-Ism on hand would be very usefull. A little bit of invincibility to do some GUARD DAMAGE(holy shit I just thought of something else! wait what I'm saying is still relevant) Believe me, when the A-ism is gone, Gen's gone. So what do I think of Gen now? Relies to much on any and all levels, thus making him more defensive than he should be and ruining his chances. One missed super and you're cooked. Hehehe, Guard crush is all you can hope for so that you can keep mixing up your offense without fear of harsh retaliation. Basically when your opponent sees his guard meter lowered, he'll try to just get the hell out of your way no matter what! The smarter player will always be waiting for you to get close and so even if you don't know it...you're walking into a trap. I just thought of this guard crush thing... not a bad thought. For all you avid Gen users out there, play this card to the bitter end(it's all you can hope for). If you disagree, please feel free to coment with your own oppinion. I'm used to playing a lot of fairly advanced(master) asians from China and one from Tokyo. My North American tricks didn't work on them http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Just for the sake of keeping this forum relelvant to its topic, I'm now an avid Guy user(I'm replacing Gen wit' Guy in a sense), AND I"M LOVIN' IT!!! The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by TS on 10:27:2000 06:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mouko: To ShadowCharlie naming other top tiers doesn't really count. Top tiers are suppose to have an even chance with each other (in this case, V ryu stands a chance against both V sim and V Gief), but you mentioning Juni is a total joke, she is ranked probably the last character in the entire game, not counting the home version, in which Guile is very useless, next to all the other new characters they put in the home versions. I wouldn't say Juni is the worst...well actually I might, but I wouldn't say any character was the worst in the game without playing it a ton...and when I play, I only use about 7 characters out of 33, so I wouldn't feel qualified to speak for someone I've only messed around with in Training Mode. I will take back what I said, however, about her having good pokes...I thought she had the same normals as Cammy. And on the Saturn version, the one that I have, I hear Guile is the least horrible. And V-Guile, at mid-level play at least, doesn't seem too far below any other average character (though you can tell he lacks a good flash kick, and a few of his normals are slower than they should be). Posted by Nos99 on 10:27:2000 10:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mouko: but you mentioning Juni is a total joke, she is ranked probably the last character in the entire game, not counting the home version, in which Guile is very useless, next to all the other new characters they put in the home versions. I know Juni isn't near top, but can you tell me what makes her dead last? I've never gotten a straight answer besides "she has to charge" and that "she has no VCs". I know she has to charge, but I don't see it being bad.. what moves are you going to use anyhow? I find that the cannon drill is usually easy to use, even though it's a charge.. I rearely use it anyhow. The air cannon drill is easy to charge. normals and VC can replace her cannon spike for anti-air. I know that she definitely has VCs as well.. all kinds of them. They even do more damage than the other clones afaik. The biggest differences i can tell is that she has to start her VCs with normals, but I find it isn't too bad. You just have to be a bit more precise.. I've even stuffed point blank supers like X-Chun rush super with VC so it seems good enough to me. If she's totall crap then her clones must be pretty close behind right? What does cammy have that's better? The s.forward, dp motion cannon spike.. ? i dunno.. I don't see the clones being THAT much better, if at all. Posted by Mouko on 10:28:2000 09:34 AM: to SniperG quote: Good opinions, but still, there opinions, and i can't agree with some of the stuff you all said(okay so I didn't agree with anything yall said). If you can comprehend the difference between facts and OPINIONS you will see everything I've said has basis (watch the B4 video if you will) while you have blurted nothing but nonsense scrub talk. quote: But i think there is no top tiers in Alpha 3. I think everybody good with something. This statement shows me that you really don't know anything about the game, or any game in general. Basically you are saying everyone has a chance of winning, of course, but some peopls chances are easier than others. Example: if character X, Y and B have the same unblockable move, wouldn't that make them more powerful that characters 1, 2 and 3? Of course, but what if I told you that X's move came out faster than Y's, but B's came out faster the X's. This means the top three compete with each other, while they eliminate the rest of the cast. That's a ranking, top tiers in A3. (in no order) V-akuma, V-ryu, V-sakura, V-zangief, V/X-dhalsim, X-chun li I might have left a few out, but these characters have a higher advantage vs. the rest of the cast. Their either have something really abusable which has higher priority than character "X" moves. quote: Of course she going to be rank last, because she one of the hardest to play with Rankings of charcters are not based on the skill level it takes to play them. They are based on anything abusable and uselfull that the character has, how many people it's usefull on and how much damage it does. Even if the master played Juli, regardless of anything she will still be a WEAK CHARACTER being played by a SKILLED PLAYER. There is a difference. quote: If they so useless then why people play them. 1. They like the character 2. They choose to play them (it's called freedom of choice) 3. They don't want to be like everyone else and play "Top tier" characters (*gasp* did he say top tier?) 4. maybe they had it on random select? To davekof quote: I will also agree that there is no best player in SFA3(arcade version!!!! fuckin' shin akuma!). Think about Ryu for a minute, he can kill anybody(duh, he has a fireball and dragon punch). This also means that hecan lose to anyone. Essentually, all you need to have is better control of the game than Ryu, and you've won. Jump or go through his fireballs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't that been the best anti-Ryu strat' ever(sounds to good to be true but that's about all there is... now where's that Alex Valle? )? There hasn't been one game where one character TOTALLY dominates (well, not counting Akuma in Super Turbo), but the fact is that there are characters that have a better advantage over another. Read above. Your points are nothing more than vague statements. Sure you can jump or go through Ryu's fireball, and? This statement has as much strategy talk as "block when they try to hit you" Try reading Seth's article on how the big boys win and become the "best". Placement is skill, and any good ryu will throw a fireball for a reason. quote: As for Gen on Aism as opposed to Vism, eventually his levels will run out. as will he in other modes, your point? quote: His level one rush super has no priority. Try comboing it or using it as a LATE anti air. quote: Essentually Gen needs to have that level2 to always be there. If your Gen is hiding behind his level 2 or 3 rush super, than he's as good as dead. Gen, like Guy, should and WILL always be on the offense. He does not need supers, his pokes and mix up games will do the job. It is like Guy, pressure, which constantly builds up super meter as well. quote: If Gen is played perfectly on Aism than He'll use his 3 levels up in the first round, charge them back up in the second, and waste them again in the third. no, a perfect Gen will set you up for counter pokes and chain combos. Again, try looking around for ECC4 footage, John Choi plays A-Gen in there I believe and you can see how much better Aism Gen is. My main argument is that Gen's Vism combo is NOT as strong as it could be, although good, the fact is that he is better off using his chains and supers for Aism mode, rather than vism. quote: He does a rolling ball, you block and counter with the level 2 rush super. After this, get in his face and build up another level 2. He does the ball, you counter. you can DP kick his roll on reaction. No super needed. quote: Otherwise you're just waiting for Blanka to jump, because you have more priority on the ground than him(what I usually do is wiff ducking medium kicks, in preperation for an anti-air dragon kick). But what if he misses his rush super in either rounds? again, Gen doesn't need supers and you seem to be playing turtle gen, which isn't how gen is suppose to be played. It's pressure and set ups for counter pokes. quote: Gen has shitty defense(contrary to popular belief), his best defense is in the PPP mode dragon kick which, sadly, is in the PPP mode! He has nothing in the PPP mode that gives any psycological advantage(by the way, if you just stay in the PPP style all the time you become to easy to anticipate). DP Kick is not that good. Sadly, it can be AIR THROW if timed right. Also, a good Gen should be CONSTANTLY switching styles. Using the best of both worlds (ex: PPP style c.foward..etc) quote: With most people(including myself), they get themselves into this robotic pattern. All you have to do is hit him between styles so to speak, while his hands are in that robotic faze of switching style(we're all human, you can't say that this never happens to you. If it doesn't than you need better competition). again it's timing and placement. If you are V-ryu, you won't activate Vism mode full screen away and hope you can jump at them and hit them with something, for the same reason you wouldn't change styles at certain times. It seems to me you need to learn when and when not to switch. Again, I point to Choi (who, IMO, has the best A gen out there) if you ever see him play, you will NEVER notice a style change, it seems to be just one Gen in one style, kicking you ass. quote: Relies to much on any and all levels, thus making him more defensive than he should be and ruining his chances. One missed super and you're cooked. for the same reason you rely on your vism bar? Anyways, no, the fact is he DOESN'T need his super bar, he has a wide variety of moves, combos and pokes which allow him to SET up for his supers. quote: I'm used to playing a lot of fairly advanced(master) asians from China and one from Tokyo. My North American tricks didn't work on them Just for the sake of keeping this forum relelvant to its topic, I'm now an avid Guy user(I'm replacing Gen wit' Guy in a sense), AND I"M LOVIN' IT!!! showing up at a random arcade in China or Tokyo doesn't show anything. Try playing Daigo in a major tournament, flying to japan on INVITATION and playing the japanese best. Winning B4 in Alpha 3. I'm speaking about John Choi, which I play with a lot and yes, he uses Aism Gen. He is who i'm basing my argument on. Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:28:2000 11:21 AM: ok i guess i have to clear somethings up to the people here, first and foremost i never usedd the words unbeatable when i metioned fei long xenogears did and that is his opinion ok second i play at home beace we dont even have a a3 machine in our whole fucking city so even if i wanted to i could not play it in the arcade and i never say that im great at streetfighter im a tekken player and yes i have won or place in a few matches :P tekken will alway be better too because of its replay and actual skill involved in it but stfight. is goood too i like it but dont play it nearly as good as tekken. the only the thing that i agree with is that shin is cheap with his fireball game and his speed/power. also xenogears(derek) has a world tour shin with auto gard and super gard with power maxed at +5 so really is very difficult to stop i can play a close game against shin with fei that may be why he thinks im goood with him. ......oh yeah ts, i never would say charlie is good on a3 i only like him on the vs series probably cause i suck at it so and he is the only one who im somewhat good with so blar! ........... ................. who then now? too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by SniperG on 10:28:2000 01:22 PM: yep [This message has been edited by SniperG (edited 03-10-2001).] Posted by idol on 10:28:2000 05:25 PM: Well I argee with Sniper, it all depends on the character. And i wouldn't say some characters were useless Posted by Septmed on 10:28:2000 05:35 PM: I think that it all depends on the player also, and you all got to stop it with all this, this is post is for Guy and Gen combos, just make another post about this.(Please don't get mad at me, i'm just trying to be nice). http://www.geocities.com/ssj3trunks_android17/super17.jpg Fools, I was made to be the perfect Android -Android 17 Posted by SniperG on 10:28:2000 05:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by idol: If you can comprehend the difference between facts and OPINIONS you will see everything I've said has basis (watch the B4 video if you will) while you have blurted nothing but nonsense scrub talk. But that based on something that give people opinions, and my [B]OPINION[B] is that I don't give a crap what on the tape. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:28:2000 07:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: ok i guess i have to clear somethings up to the people here, first and foremost i never usedd the words unbeatable when i metioned fei long xenogears did and that is his opinion ok second i play at home beace we dont even have a a3 machine in our whole fucking city so even if i wanted to i could not play it in the arcade and i never say that im great at streetfighter im a tekken player and yes i have won or place in a few matches :P tekken will alway be better too because of its replay and actual skill involved in it but stfight. is goood too i like it but dont play it nearly as good as tekken. the only the thing that i agree with is that shin is cheap with his fireball game and his speed/power. also xenogears(derek) has a world tour shin with auto gard and super gard with power maxed at +5 so really is very difficult to stop i can play a close game against shin with fei that may be why he thinks im goood with him. ......oh yeah ts, i never would say charlie is good on a3 i only like him on the vs series probably cause i suck at it so and he is the only one who im somewhat good with so blar! ........... ................. who then now? too easy <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg"> yeah. Posted by Mouko on 10:28:2000 09:29 PM: to shadowcharlie words taken. I wasn't bombing on you, just sniperg and his really scrubby statements. Please try to use some form of punctuation, it's hard to read you post. quote: oh yeah ts, i never would say charlie is good on a3 i only like him on the vs series probably cause i suck at it so and he is the only one who im somewhat good with so blar! BTW, charlie is a solid character, i'd put him a low mid tier. if you have the B4 tape (if you don't, GET ONE!) the very first Alpha 3 match is between Thao's A-charlie vs Hiro's A-gen. good stuff. to sniperg quote: Rephrase that, because a srub is someone who can't play half the characters and saying they suck, now hat a srub. Hahahahahahah, i'm laughing here your laughter for no aparent reason seems to be something mental, you should get that checked out. A scrub is someone (like you) who thinks they know everything about a game (like you) but when actually they don't. (like you) The fact that I did not learn half the cast was that about 5 out of the entire cast are considered top tiers, I always learn the top tiers first (for a scrub who says there's no such things as top tiers..this might be hard for you) and then I learn any character I choose, which is why I used V-adon during B4. quote: But that based on something that give people opinions, and my OPINION is that I don't give a crap what on the tape. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA can you edit this one please? I have trouble with people that having typing skills of a 6 year old. BTW, it's your choice whether you give a shit about the B4 video or not, but if you want to see what I have been talking about for the last 4 posts, buy yourself a b4 video, go into your living rooms, pop it in when mommy and daddy aren't home and drool at the sight of REAL players, rather than you playing your little brother. Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by TS on 10:28:2000 11:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mouko: BTW, charlie is a solid character, i'd put him a low mid tier. if you have the B4 tape (if you don't, GET ONE!) the very first Alpha 3 match is between Thao's A-charlie vs Hiro's A-gen. Yeah, I was at B4...didn't see that match though. Why would you put Charlie so low? Looked to be a pretty solid middle-middle tier to me. Posted by SniperG on 10:28:2000 11:18 PM: yep [This message has been edited by SniperG (edited 03-10-2001).] Posted by omni on 10:29:2000 12:12 AM: You guys are arguing over the existance of if there is a tier in Alpha3? Of course there is. Top Tier: VDhalsim, VAkuma, VRyu, VSakura, VZangief 2nd Tier: VCharlie, VSodom, VKarin, VSagat, Chun etc You can make a case for Aism versions of top tier being in 2nd tier if you want. And I personally think AChun is better than X. The latest Japanese A3 Ranking that I saw had the exact same top tier as us but they had ADhalsim instead. Shrug. AGuy and AGen are both good, but they rely on a lot of tricks to win and once you get used to their tricks, so hard to maintain winning. I would put them at strong middle tier. bored. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by Mouko on 10:29:2000 12:39 AM: to TS quote: Yeah, I was at B4...didn't see that match though. Why would you put Charlie so low? Looked to be a pretty solid middle-middle tier to me. Sorry about that..that was a typo, my posts tend to be long and i tend to slip a few times. He's top mid IMO to sniper g quote: I do play those people that you so call top teirs. Beside, i got nothing else to say to a srub. really? what arcade to you play them at? tell me? I wouldn't mind going to play you as well, the fact that you don't believe there are tiers makes you seem someone that just randomly plays and knows nothing of the game, listen to omni. Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by davekof on 10:31:2000 04:31 AM: OK... the argument over top tier players seems to have been won by the guy wit' the symbol of "TEN" beside his name. Well I guess I wanted to be original and win, rather than just take Ryu and win. Anyway, I got beat bad today by Ryu, and I'm just now starting to accept that are top tiers out there(even though a little part of me inside still wishes that Charlie and Honda and all those others were top. That same little part of me thinks that nobody has mastered any other 2nd tier characters and thus nobody knows if say"Birdie" is top tier). So I will now start using Akuma(start on A and work until I'm good enough to be V), and I can honestly say that I liked him before and am not a sellout. I will also keep using Charlie since he is top tier in other games(like SF2...I know it's guile!). This argument is over. So where does Choi play... one guy said Sunnyvale and now Mouko is sayin' mipita(or whatever). Somebody please tell me where he is at since I am moving to Cali'. The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by Mouko on 10:31:2000 08:07 AM: To Davekof quote: So where does Choi play... one guy said Sunnyvale and now Mouko is sayin' mipita(or whatever). Somebody please tell me where he is at since I am moving to Cali'. I NEVER said John plays at milpitas. He plays at Sunnyvale. My signature is just a joke, because that's where "team milpitas" came out of during b4, cause we met up at B4 (all the players from milpitas). but I go to Sunnyvale more often now rather than milpitas (they are about 10 minutes apart, so it doesn't matter where you live in cali, if you can go to one you can go to the other.) late Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by blt on 10:31:2000 04:36 PM: just thought i'd back up moko here. gen's best ism is A, his V combo has like no range at all. how are you ever gonna land it on anyone? better to keep the supers for juggling and reversal. I see some post asking why Juni is worse than Cammy. Ok first off.. Juni loses the ability to constantly pressure with spiral arrow since she must charge. Also due to charging, her antiair is weaker as a result (try fighting against Zangief: either you sit there and he controls the match for free, or he jumping knees on you all day with impunity, one or the other). She loses many important normals (cammy's far s.strong and s.fierce). Her VC's are nowhere near as versatile or powerful as Cammy's (this is a big one). Juli definitely is closer to Cammy strength than Juni. Snipe G .. this game most certainly does have a top tier, you think any No-ism Birdie can beat even a mediocre V Akuma? Mouko . v charlie is definitely second tier material, if his flash kick was good he would be top for sure. certainly not lower middle tier.. Posted by Galactica Phantom on 10:31:2000 09:47 PM: Sorry for the confusion Mouko. I just E-mailed Choiboy and asked him about where he plays... plus a little bit about A-Gen; I couldn't resist. I'm gonna start a new forum about middle tier characters against top tier players... and maybe some Dan and Blanka stuff(SFA3). Enough of this argument BS, I think it's pretty pointless until somebody wins a tourney wit' Blanka. peace(My new name is Galactica phantom...used to be Davekof) Honoo ga, OMAE O YONDERUZE Posted by Nos99 on 11:01:2000 10:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by blt: I see some post asking why Juni is worse than Cammy. Ok first off.. Juni loses the ability to constantly pressure with spiral arrow since she must charge. Also due to charging, her antiair is weaker as a result (try fighting against Zangief: either you sit there and he controls the match for free, or he jumping knees on you all day with impunity, one or the other). She loses many important normals (cammy's far s.strong and s.fierce). Her VC's are nowhere near as versatile or powerful as Cammy's (this is a big one). Juli definitely is closer to Cammy strength than Juni. ok.. i see how she's weak. But last place? Worse than dan? birdie? How can that possibly be? I also recognize that Cammy's VCs are more versatile, but powerful?? If you can, please tell me Cammy's most damaging VC. AFAIK, Juni will always do more damage in a VC.. because of the cross scissor pressure. Also, besides the instant DP startup, how are Cammys VCs different than Junis? Wouldn't Juni's ability to SPD VC be a plus? or her air drill, or push block, teleport, etc? I know they all have limited usefullness, but don't they count for something? I know that I'm biased because I use her all the time and don't see how she's total shit. But last place? that's pretty bad. She must be better than birdie overall. Gief also can't jumpin knees all day.. you've got VC and pushblock. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif (i know, he could just not throw them out, but still, he can't do it all day). Posted by Mouko on 11:02:2000 06:38 AM: quote: I also recognize that Cammy's VCs are more versatile, but powerful?? the fact that they are more versatile make it more powerful. I do not remember her VC, ( I know it had drill into something..) anyways the fact is that everything that makes Juni strong, cammy has and plus the fact that her VC is better says a whole lot. quote: Wouldn't Juni's ability to SPD VC be a plus? the damage is nowhere near as large as the other SPD people (sodom, gief) so for a VC SPD, it's not worth it IMO. quote: I know that I'm biased because I use her all the time and don't see how she's total shit. But last place? that's pretty bad. She must be better than birdie overall. you are thinking about her as a character..try comparing her to the best modes and styles of the other characters, you will see she falls weak in a lot of areas. Xism Birdie is good btw. Vism Dan is REALLY good as well (50%+ VC) quote: Gief also can't jumpin knees all day.. you've got VC and pushblock. (i know, he could just not throw them out, but still, he can't do it all day). vs non fireballers like Juli, he doesn't have to attack. Also, good giefs counter VC, VC through during jump ins (an usually short-> running bear..etc) or walk up jab SPD (max range) Peter "Mouko" Nguyen AIM: inkheads Yahoo: Violent_Ink ~Part of the Unofficial Team Milpitas Golfland~ Posted by Nos99 on 11:02:2000 10:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mouko: the fact that they are more versatile make it more powerful. I do not remember her VC, ( I know it had drill into something..) anyways the fact is that everything that makes Juni strong, cammy has and plus the fact that her VC is better says a whole lot. I only see them being slightly more versatile.. besides the instant special, what VCs can Cammy do that Juni can't? And I'm pretty sure Juni's will always do more damage. Overall, besides instant special, what can cammy do that Juni can't anyways? I also can't really believe that people pressure with the drill. The ground drill seems so risky. I know that you can set it up so that your safe, but I dunno. probably just me. I don't use the ground drill much. mainly against charlie. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Also, what about the little things that Juni has that Cammy doesn't? That's one of the reason why I don't play Cammy.. too bland. Granted, thoses little things aren't anything too awesome, but they do have their uses. Pushblocking GC and confusion VCs MUST be good right? Pushblock is also pretty good for meter runaway. The SPD has a few uses.. air drill can be good. cross scissor pressure is BIG plus. quote: the damage is nowhere near as large as the other SPD people (sodom, gief) so for a VC SPD, it's not worth it IMO. Yeah I know.. but what if it's the end of the match, or if your VC is blocked? there's some uses that Cammy doesn't have. You can also juggle after the SPD if used right, as well as OTG.. which isn't something to abuse, it's still -something- and can help if used right. quote: you are thinking about her as a character..try comparing her to the best modes and styles of the other characters, you will see she falls weak in a lot of areas. Xism Birdie is good btw. Vism Dan is REALLY good as well (50%+ VC) Ok.. So because Dan has 50% VC he's good? All of Juni's VCs do more than 50% and some even 80-90%. Juni's VCs are easily better than Dan's IMO. And how is XBirdie better than Juni? Juni has to only land one VC and it's pretty much over. The chances of him landing super vs Juni's VC aren't too good IMO. Although, the turn headbutt hurts. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif The V-meter alone could win it. Think of it this way.. If cammy beats X-Birdie (I'm assuming), why wouldn't Juni beat him? quote: vs non fireballers like Juli, he doesn't have to attack. Also, good giefs counter VC, VC through during jump ins (an usually short-> running bear..etc) or walk up jab SPD (max range) you meant "juni" right? yes, I know this.. which is why Gief is tops. I know Juni isn't. I just don't see how she's bottom dead last place. I honestly don't think Cammy and Juli and THAT much better than her. She's got decent stuff.. so shouldn't she be close behind? She must have something BAD that sends her down the ranks. the charge thing? I dunno. I just don't see her getting creamed by EVERY SINGLE character. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif I see dan losing a lot more than Juni at least. [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 11-02-2000).] Posted by Yoga Flame on 03:10:2001 11:38 AM: uhh, this post shouldn't be here, sorry. [This message has been edited by Yoga Flame (edited 03-09-2001).] Posted by bahn on 03:11:2001 12:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by omni: You can make a case for Aism versions of top tier being in 2nd tier if you want. And I personally think AChun is better than X. Damn straight A is awesome...I mean granted X-Chun is definitely a force, because of power, but that can be said for many characters. Hm...maybe a new Chun thread should be started http://www.the-nextlevel.com/staff/bahn/teaminterpol.gif The Next Level "You must learn to block or my speed will always overcome you." Posted by Buktooth88 on 03:11:2001 02:41 PM: what are some effective anti-airs with Chun? The d,u+K NEVER works, so (in those rare occasions that I do use Chun) I tend to use standing jabs. Anything better? Posted by bahn on 03:11:2001 04:38 PM: What's that? It never works? Hm, tenshou kyaku always works...it's one of her most effective anti-air moves. It's important to know which button to use when executing her 'upkick'. Short is best to stop crossup attempts, while rh is good for combos and distant jump-in attacks. Easier anti-moves would be her normal attacks: low rh, standing fierce, and standing rh (when positioned directly above your opponent). Think I'll create a Chun/Charlie thread so that this one doesn't begin to clutter the original intent of the thread that's addressing Gen/Guy strats. I'll be reposting my comments again just to start things off. http://www.the-nextlevel.com/staff/bahn/teaminterpol.gif The Next Level "You must learn to block or my speed will always overcome you." All times are GMT. The time now is 10:24 PM. Show all 64 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.